This article is in October 2009 the evening of 27 Few play activities, on-site bookstore Record of the text by odette students come from a live recording finishing and did shorthand friends will understand that this is what a difficult project bar. After starting the article Manyuan Long after the teacher read the details of the amendments to the strict teacher pay tribute to the dragon!

Tomorrow is the "Origin of Species," published 150 anniversary, and the lively, close to the end of Darwin. Finally catch up on this day well before the finishing of these words.

Editing this book, let me see my previous understanding of the evolutionary theory of how humble; and in the conference, we are surprised by our high standard of active discussion and questions. However, two squirrels leisurely, because "there are dragon teachers, we have security about her." Theism, the genetic basis of homosexuality, human contingency occurs, many people might be interested in these topics have been a perfect answer, with regard to evolution and religion discussion of the relationship of faith is especially exciting.

Conference activities, forums, you can crowd into a reply to reach 99 of the posts, if the stubborn Louzhu who can read the following questions part of the text, do not know will not be so insist. Of course, maybe it serves him right for the people who do not believe in evolution theory is concerned, no amount of evidence cited in vain, this book only for the person who wrote an open mind.

Less gossip Syria on the dry goods.

Date: October 2009 the evening of 27

Location: Few play Bookstore

Guests: Dragon Manyuan teacher (University of Chicago)

Squirrel Sheng Ye (translators, Columbia University)

Squirrel Zhen-Xia (Beijing University)

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Promote understanding of the background

Moderator: 2009 is the 200th anniversary of Darwin's "Origin of Species," published 150 years, a variety of commemorative activities held around the world, but also published a number of commemorative books. Among them, the University of Chicago Department of Chemistry, Professor of Ecology and played Jerry Coyne's Why Evolution is True is one of one. Although this book is published in time for this opportunity, but it is definitely not for the occasion, which the author's many years of hard work condensed. Simply put, the book about the evolution of evidence. Perhaps we are accepted by the Chinese childhood education has determined that we rarely go to doubt the correctness of Darwin's theory, but if someone questioned the theory of evolution point of view, we can not come up with strong reasons to refute this? This book is the case on all grounds.

Can be an opportunity to incorporate such a book destined to become a classic introduction of the domestic, thanks to the Long Man is far strongly recommend the teacher on the first call-long teacher tell us about the background of the book. Why do you give us recommend a book like this, not just because Coyne is your colleagues, right?

Long Manyuan teacher witty remarks

Long Manyuan: My colleagues have more (laughs).

The University of Chicago in my 12 years, during which the public has to see Coyne write articles, written especially good in his Science, Nature have written a book review. In the U.S., I feel that is easier to write scientific reports, writing a book appraisal difficult, difficult because you can not just talk about good things, there must be a critical spirit, even the best book you have to Nengjiang Chu of its shortcomings. Jerry to write these book reviews have highlighted the features of his writing.

As an example, he wrote a book review in Nature, say many textbooks are used in a classic example of the phenomenon known as industrial melanism. Of industrialization, the British air pollution increases, the trunk darkened. There is a moth known as pepper flower moth, previously mostly light-colored, in the industrialized later, black pepper flower moth gradually increased the frequency in nature. A well-known scientists published an article claiming that he really observed the birds feeding and trunk of the background color for the pepper moth wings, choice of colors to spend the role. Then this matter is considered to have witnessed the evolution of the occurrence of examples in nature. Become a classic textbook example.

Later, the scientist died, leaving behind a lot of the notes, his son, out of curiosity to read. Results read that there is a reference to this matter that year, he was surprised to discover that his father is an important result of the article is false! His father said: "I can not stand my teacher was sharp eyes, each time in Cambridge to work, the teacher from behind his glasses looked at me, want me to have a significant scientific discoveries, his eyes like a knife as continuous cut me, I really can not stand, finally forged information to the teacher happy. "

Scientist's son, told the press this matter, because people have already died, it will not hold him accountable. "The New York Times" asked Jerry what is your comment on this matter, most people would say: "I am very disappointed." And Jerry said: "This incident reminds me of my six years old when my father told me before Christmas: 'before Santa Claus will give you all my gifts to send, not Santa Claus sent!'," He write peaceful and humorous. This reflects the consistent style of his writing. I told him that not all views are the same, sometimes not the same as the view for some heated debate; but you read what he wrote, or will feel that this is an excellent author. Therefore, this writing came out, I felt really good. Last year was also the 200th anniversary of Darwin's birthday, so I think that may recommend a good book. Later, the book will get a scientific squirrels, there found Mr. Ye Sheng.

In addition, the United States, "Newsweek" This year all the books ever decided to be a ranking, I mentioned in the preface, the book ranked No. 39. The list also includes William • Faulkner, Whitman, Mark Twain and others • works. Of course, I told Jerry said, "depends on after 20 years, your book is not such a good rating can be." But no matter what, its great influence on the West today, I went to the previous period in several cities in Germany scholars have been reading this book.

In particular, I want to say is, Jerry is no ordinary science writer, he is also a distinguished scientist, his research is the differentiation of species, that is how a species is divided into two species. In this field he is an outstanding scholar. He also wrote another book called Speciation, is a professional book. Written by such a scientist's work has made to allow any professional writer is jealous of the achievements. His pen and express ideas outside the scope of his professional produce a broader impact.

Mr. Ye Sheng just to talk about another thing, he felt the Western scientists and Chinese scientists in writing the traditional desire not the same. The West, many excellent scientists have written a good popular science works, the domestic in this respect there is a difference. This is the tradition we have been advocating, when there is a saying of Confucius, called "a gentleman wishes to Nool in a nutshell sensitive to the line", meaning that an educated person should be good at to do more with less speech. On the surface this statement is quite good, but the same period a representative figure of ancient Greece, Aristotle's point of view is entirely different. He said that thinking is based on language as the carrier, I do not believe that a lost for words to those who are able to have clear thinking.

So, starting with ancient Greece to today's Western education, and training young students pay greater attention to the language skills, including speaking and writing skills. Therefore, in the international arena, the debate with others, we are often at a disadvantage here, especially the scientific debate. This is also where we need to gradually improve, domestic science education to reach the international advanced level to solve the problem.

Moderator: Dragon teacher handed this book at the University of Chicago with oranges, oranges also found YE. Sheng Ye's specialty is structural biology, it sounds like a bit far with the evolutionary relationships, oranges Why will find you?

YE talking about the

YE: It is necessary to thank the Science and squirrels will be, and this opportunity is entirely at the end of last year because I have been involved in the squirrel will be smaller Porco Rosso's work. I have translated a number of articles later, Orange said: "Are you not interested in translation of a book?" I heard after the initial motivation is very simple, it is thought that one day things printed in typeface, I would like this opportunity to If you do not grasp there is no next time. So was immediately say "good is good, very interested."

However, until the beginning of this book really got the translation, I did feel that this book is not just boring, but there are many interesting things inside. There is one word I feel particularly strongly that the first chapter began with a quotation French biologist Jacques Monod's words: "Evolutionary theory has a strange characteristic: everyone feel that they understand the theory of evolution." We seem to feel that they know evolutionary theory, not that organisms are step by step, from simple to advanced evolved Mody? But until I read this book when it knows that we know too shallow, evolution theory of how things contained in a rigorous and how rich. Can be said that modern biology, tangled vine branches of many things, in the final analysis can be down with the string theory of evolution. Sorry, I used to use "evolution" is the word.

In short, this book both in theory, allow you to understand how evolutionary theory can be established, know that it's a logical relationship between a whole; the same time, in the book you can see a lot of interesting stories about animals and plants, including our own humanity story. This is a readable book of the office.

Before I begin the translation, no less than present here a better understanding of evolutionary theory, the process of translation for me is a learning process. I hope people will read this book, we shall see more gains.

Moderator: Sheng Ye have mentioned "evolution" and "evolution" of the problem, I wonder if you have not noticed I have just introduced Long where he was a teacher, said the Department is "Department of Chemistry, Ecology and speech," but the description said, CHEN Zhen-Xia her as "molecular evolution professional." In the last moment before a book is a dragon teacher persuaded us to book all the "evolution" are replaced by "evolution" in the hope he can convince everyone today.

Long Manyuan: University of Chicago, the annual school must explain why the natural world there is no one from the simple to the complex laws of natural evolution. Because more than in China, to the Western public, this is a result of a long-term misleading. In fact, this matter should be pushed back 100 years to Yan Fu, in his translation of "Evolution and Ethics" and when asked: nature on the one hand there is the so-called from simple to complex evolutionary process, but also by the complex to simple degradation process, which This book which has such evidence. And now we also know that there are many organisms can be in a few billion years is almost does not change, at least does not occur significantly. Nature without a clear direction, this is the fact that scientific research continues to tell us. Yan Fu's translation of 1897, "Evolution and Ethics", he translated into the evolution occurs in nature, evolution ( "Evolution and Ethics"). 20 years later, Ma Junwu translated into "evolutionary."

The West also believe that "evolution" is an objective law, which is the last century social thought to cause major changes, when many people want human society to progress, from lower to higher, which is determined by our values. These people hope to find a pillar of the natural sciences. Although Darwin himself emphasized many times: Biological there is degradation, there is no specific orientation.

Blend of science with politics, until ten years ago, the famous Harvard evolutionary biologist and popular science writer Stephen Jay Gould published a book called Full House, talk about why evolution has no direction, why does not exist in nature a necessarily from lower to advanced process, the evidence Zaozao. The book a great influence in Western countries. We should tell the public the right idea, it is a scientific publishing house in mind. This is the one.

Second, because this year is the 200th anniversary of Darwin's birth, "Scientific Culture" magazine about me on the "Evolution" is the word to write an article. I deliberately looked for a tool for the domestic authority of the book - "Ci Hai", "Xinhua Dictionary", "Modern Chinese Dictionary" and so on, these dictionaries say that living organisms evolved. This has become a convention, but its definition is wrong, said, "is always from lower to higher biological evolution, from simple to complex." You think carefully, this statement is problematic, "low", "advanced" are value judgments, not scientific description. What is meant by "senior"? Now we go to eat to go to luxury hotels; also said that they wanted to return to nature, to the suburbs to find a thatched shed for dinner, then the subconscious is also advanced. Therefore, the low-level and high-level natural science does not matter. The "from simple to complex," it touches on the scientific description of a pity that it is wrong.

I think each of us and Jerry have to give students lectures on this issue, if he knows that you used the word "evolution" is the word, he would find you: "how you can use so many words in it?" Their books is very concerned about the spread. So, I told editors to discuss with "evolution."

I also hope that through this first book, so that the domestic public get the correct information from a later renumbered "Ci Hai", "Xinhua Dictionary", "Modern Chinese Dictionary" and other similar tools for books or textbooks, there is one the correct description, rather than as they are now, more than a billion people the country, the natural language description of the most important definition of the phenomenon is actually wrong. That a lot of people think that this is just convention, but this convention is connected together, and definitions, if you say "evolution", do you mind thought: "Oh, there is a biological change in direction." You are wrong. Therefore, this error is not written language errors, is to define errors describe errors, misleading the public to understand.

Evolution Evidence

Moderator: Back to the book when it comes to the evolution of evidence may be our first response is a fossil. Members have on hand to get the bookmark, there are two dinosaurs, and they are an illustrator based out of fossil restored. Standing the millennium Sinornithosaurus, sleep is the Mei long, and their existence is to prove the relationship between birds and reptiles of the important evidence. Please Sheng Ye talk about their story.

Sheng Ye: The Chinese dragon is the evolution of birds in a transitional form of biotechnology. It has characteristics of dinosaur bones, fossils and because it forms a very special geological conditions to form the same as the printed version of the structure of a very soft feathers have also been clearly preserved. This proves that dinosaurs had feathers already have. Perhaps we are all on the most intuitive impression of dinosaurs from "Jurassic Park"-like the United States large, then inside the dinosaur's skin is smooth, the color is dark. Now, with the development of paleontology, our knowledge about dinosaurs has become increasingly diverse and found that the previous concept is wrong. Birds such as China dragon dinosaur may be a minority, many dinosaurs were feathered, dinosaurs, the color is not so gloomy, but the same as the birds may have a distinct color.

Mei Long is another example of the first stretch of the body behind the mouth is almost under pressure in the forelimb, it is clear that it was a duck or similar bird of the sleeping position. May be the dinosaur into what happened in the sleeping turn of events, such as volcanic eruptions and the like, it suddenly died, has been such a form of preservation. This is precisely between dinosaurs and birds has revealed the existence of a link, we've know that the links are often from a bone shape or get some special parameters, while Mei Long suggests behavioral connections.

Moderator: In addition to fossils, the book of evidence on the evolution of various fields are explained in detail, which involves at least the molecular evidence. And today we can make up for the pity, because Long is a teacher's authority in this regard. Long a teacher of students first, please tell us what Zhen-Xia molecular evolution.

CHEN Zhen-Xia slightly nervous

CHEN Zhen-Xia: Using Darwin's words, evolution is defined as "descent with modification", which is a succession of changes. That which contains two concepts: one is to have similarity of the same sex; The second is to have differences. The same sex is because the species have a common origin; different nature because the process of evolution of different species is not the same.

We should be very familiar with the concept of the genome, this concept refers to the set of the various species, the genetic information that determines what kind of grow into your future. Talking about the genome, the most commonly used metaphor is the "Double Dutch", the character is ATCG such nucleotides, the phrase can be mapped the genetic code, such as the AGC corresponds to a start codon, indicating the beginning of a sequence. A gene is equivalent to a sentence or a paragraph. If you compare the two species, genetic information, will be very surprised to find that not only the characters which, like the same phrases, and even some sentences, the paragraphs are similar, meaning the same, so we have to imagine that these two books is a source of in the same book different versions, simply because different people of the excerpt or the modification makes a difference.

Another important evidence is that not all genes are functional, some pseudogenes have no function. If God created these genes, we have to wonder why God did not want to create these functional genes. These pseudo-genes in sequence with other species in many functional genes are similar, the marks of these species related.

In addition, if we compare many of the sequence, you will find many similarities between sequences, such as human and chimpanzee genomes are 98.5% are similar, only a few differences. The same is true of other species. By doing some of the different genomes, we can build a tree, this tree is a different minor species, and its trunk are brought together in a common ancestor, the tree that is the kinship between species. We would be very surprised to find, so that a tree with other fossil evidence, the biochemical evidence, etc. The conclusion is completely consistent, which is more proof of a common origin of the argument is correct.

Long Manyuan: At the last encounter Jerry, I said ask him, why not write into the molecular evidence? He said it was because he was not to engage in research in this area. But last week a meeting at the university, we have invited the University of Chicago, another very well-known experts in molecular evolution of Marty Kreitman, he said: "Jerry the evolution of evidence, the most interesting part of the most easily understood introduction to the public, but the most important the evidence did not. "If the evidence of molecular evolution into a book, I think even thicker than this book. However, this book is to cite one or two examples, I might as well talk about.

How many people here who drink milk will cause diarrhea? (Have raised their hands)

How many people drink milk, there is a serious problem that one can not drink milk? (YE enthusiastically raised their hands)

Because I am a Chinese post-doctoral laboratory, I have noticed this things: students from China can not drink more milk. Why do some people drink milk, it will cause diarrhea? Because these people can not synthesize a thing called lactase, which can be among the milk lactose broken down, to digest milk has an important role. Gene strange, everyone has this gene, but only expressed in the feeding of children, to the one or two years later, the attenuation of the expression of this gene, resulting in low expression level.

However, probably Liuqiqiannian ago (in which the former is probably the human after a lactation period that can not drink milk) The occurrence of an event called the African countries in the northern part of Sudan, the Sudanese for the first time when dairy cattle domestication, the Sudan from the European close, once they domesticated cows, people have found a new food. You can imagine Sudanese lactase gene mutation, so you can drink milk. Europeans will soon bring cows into Europe, but only as a mutation took place before they can make this gene in adults can express, your intestines have this enzyme, can break down the use of milk.

This mutation probably occurs only in Liu Qiannian ago, the time is not long, but today more than 90% of people in Europe all had to drink milk. This is the role of natural selection. With this enzyme can use milk, only better your nutrition, physical we go, will it be possible to have more offspring.

Some scientists have even done research and found that the gene expression of one's life can have more offspring. For example, one such gene mutations in people and those who do not have this gene mutation, each on behalf of approximately 30% of the fertility differences, this ratio let this new mutation to spread in Europe.

This is indeed evidence that the adoption of: natural selection, by altering the genetic mechanism that will constantly change the source of human nutrition, the use of the natural world.

I have one of the most interesting example found that even our secondary sexual characteristics - the characteristics of men are gradually changed. A large number of studies have shown that the genetic control of male sexual reproductive changes in nature particularly fast. Therefore, the male sexual and reproductive function in evolution is unstable, if the words of reproductive problems, mostly in men. These facts tell us that control our genetic machinery of human reproduction is also the evolving nature.

Discussion was lively

Topic 1: Why is the male peacock peacock handsome than females?

Visitor 1: I have read a book that females in the reproductive process of the efforts of larger males compete for females to go. It seems to be an example of crickets, crickets than the males and females seem to some, because in the reproductive process in the effort to be great.

Moderator: Can you tell a sex look like two different species, a phenomenon called?

Visitor 1: uh ... ...

Sheng Ye: Tell a gender dimorphism. Let us further ask, from the "female in the reproductive effort during the relatively large" to "Why is the males compete for females," like leaving a shortfall of the middle of a ring.

Visitor 1: do not quite right ... ...

Visitor 2: I think it is because females pay a relatively large, in the decision-making should be more cautious this time the male must demonstrate its own resources, such as the peacock's beautiful appearance is similar Jiugen the wealth of mankind, you can attract the opposite sex.

Visitor 3: I think it is because females pay a large death rate should be higher, the proportion of males than in females natural high.

Visitor 4: Because the number of female offspring to care less, so when selecting a spouse are more choices.

Moderator: Everyone says that effort more than females, why?

Audience 5: Take the man, his sperm are more for women, only one egg.

YE: The answer should be just a few students together, both to various reasons. The one hand, both sperm and egg number and size of germ cells are not the same; the other hand, just like the second the audience said, but "caution" the word is used in humans, as animals may be difficult to say anything caution is called, if it is female to male competition, then part of the female reproductive resources will be wasted, from a population point of view, such populations with other populations at a disadvantage when competing. That is why the gender pay more there waiting, so that those who pay less gender to compete.

Moderator: With regard to sexual selection, the book devotes a chapter had a very wonderful descriptions may be interested in reading.

Topic 2: The remnants of the evolution of humans.

Moderator: In fact, humans have some traces of the evolution, we can give a similar organ, or function of the appendix example is the ancestor of a very important, but now almost useless, or function has changed.

Viewers 6: Some people can move my ears before the sound can be identified in this direction, away from predators, now there is no such use of the. (Intuition that what the name of the piece of muscle?) Dynamic ear muscles? (Bingo!)

Audience 7: coccyx.

Audience 8: the direction of the body fine hair, animal fine hair body, upper arm length from the top-down, bottom-up from the lower arm length, which in apes or monkeys is very easy to find, the main role is to shelter from the rain, let it down the direction of hair flow down. But now it does not use a little bit, and we have umbrellas.

Sheng Ye: This I have different views, mammals, fur surface is not the same with our fine hair. Do not know if there are no children here, some kids just born there will be a layer of fluff, but soon faded, and that is the mammalian body surface layer of fluff fur. Example is that people will have goose bumps, goose bumps are the long fur of all the pores of the role of muscle under the legislation hair. Cat people will know that if you are angry with the cat, then will the body of the MAO together, this is Li Mao's role in muscle. We are cold when the legislature will enact gross muscle warm up, but we have not which layer of the ocean.

I want to go book a very interesting example. Several centuries ago, the seafaring crew will be too bad hyperinsulinemia, hyperlipidemia, later, we know very bad because our body can not synthesis of vitamin C, have to be learned in the intake of fresh fruits and vegetables. Virtually all of the primates can not synthesize vitamin C, while the other mammals, able to do so. This is because we have a number of synthetic vitamin C, step by step a certain enzyme gene mutations occurred. This shows that all primates have a common ancestor, the ancestor of the emergence of this mutation, so whether it is monkeys, chimpanzees or humans have this mutation, so we can not synthesize vitamin C a. So why can we survive it? Probably because of the foods primates eat fruit is a major component, so we can adequate intake of vitamin C, deletion of this gene do not care. This is a molecular point of view of the evidence supporting evolution, but also in the evolution of a degradation.

Long Man Yuan: I just listen to the dialogue I am very pleased to note the hearts of everyone, has gradually evolved to take root. Evolution in science and play an increasingly important role. 22 years, went to America to study, I was chosen out of interest in molecular evolution of this profession, all my Chinese students in the United States are concerned that this interest will be bad children, due to the failure of several universities in the profession, the company there is no, if I want to in the United States after graduation to find a job do not know if there is no chance. But I never thought until today, the United States, many universities have the evolution of this profession, there are many companies have already started the evolution of research, such as the perspective from the evolution of drug resistance mechanisms of AIDS and found that it is a Darwinian natural selection evolution.

So it has gradually stepped into our lives, in science is also becoming increasingly important. This also explains why there are decent this year, almost all countries in science education to mark the 200th anniversary of Darwin's birth, including demonstrations, rallies, on the beach drinking beer, and so on form. Darwin's respect for human evolution has gone beyond the field of science in support of Nobel laureate Jacques Monod's a point: that all scientific theories, evolution theory is the most important theories.

I recently helped a domestic magazine reviewers, a person engaged in the humanities to write article discusses Darwin, quoted Jacques Monod sentence: "Evolutionary theory has a strange characteristic: everyone feel that they understand the theory of evolution." This is a kind of mockery, evolutionary theory does not have it so simple on the surface, the text of this sentence after that there are modified: "I mean sociologists, I mean philosophers, and so on." Jacques Monod means the year in France engaged in the community science people do not truly understand evolution, because they do not understand biology. Later, I suggest that the authors do not use this sentence. To read the original article cited, do not read the original words, he scolded you do not know you.

The best questions

Audience 9: Long a teacher just mentioned "evolution", and I know that some schools to teach inorganic biology to study the inorganic to the organic matter is changing because we've been educated to tell us that the universe created from the start, first there are inorganic substances, and then evolved into organic matter, from the amino acids only after there has been a gradual micro-organisms, gradually with the complex biological, such as from a simple arthropods began to evolve from a cold-blooded to warm-blooded animals like mammals. Like to understand how such a big process of evolution then? Long a teacher in accordance with the meaning of the world's organisms can range from simple to complex, can also be from complex to simple, then the world might have existed is not the same as or higher human life, then it degradation, disintegration out?

Long Man is far: from apes to humans can be said that the changes may be relatively simple to more complex from at least the level of intellectual development. However, there are many of life on Earth, such as bacteria in nature is based on a simple form. Despite the evolutionary process of creation of mankind have played an important role, but it is not necessarily universal rule.

Secondly, after the birth of the human experience of religious feelings, there was period of time in our nature not know much about the case, I believe that all the world is for human-centered, and Copernicus, Galileo, who continue to break the We are the boundaries of our vision into a broader place, let us have a more objective understanding of the universe. Not because we are human beings that they are this way, we believe that the whole life is like this. If all of evolution, then how could so many bacteria in a simple existence on Earth? There is no value of life itself, which do one thing - trying to exist. If it and its compatible nature to survive, it exists. There is a well-known law of biology, the same problem can have multiple answers, all of the answer depends on the specific circumstances faced. This determines the life of the world can not have too much universal, a sure thing. This does not deny evolution, only that it is not inevitable, it is only in one of many possible. So if you say "we have evolved from apes," no one would say you are wrong; but if that "life is evolution," which is wrong.

Audience 9: On this topic, I would like to continue to ask, since many people only bio-branch one, from the lower animals to higher animals to man, this is only a low probability event. Creationism has been the question: With such a low probability of an event why did it happen? In the world will appear on human beings, is really an accidental events?

Long Man Yuan: I wrote an article that asked the origin of life by chance or by necessity, the issue is meaningless. Why? One professor at the University of Chicago before the thirties of the last century to carry out an important task is to study from the previous generation to the next generation of the probability of meaningful questions become, how much is based on the probability of a bio-generated, it is a number between 0 and 1. Incidental and necessary is a more ambiguous issue, so it does not make sense.

That people produce is a low probability event, which in probability theory is simply not valid. If we recall the definition of probability, it is said, repeating the same behavior of a lot of times, there's a certain result will gradually toward a stable number, we call this a stable percentage of the total number of probability. The emergence of people an incident has occurred, we can not say that it is a low probability event. It is possible in many a result of evolution.

It went on to say another thing that people often say that Shuishui who would challenge Darwin. In fact, the last century a hundred years, I think there are two people can be said that a real challenge to Darwin, and their discovery is the field of Darwinian evolution to create a supplement.

The first person called Kimura Zisheng (Motoo Kimura), 1994 died, he had specialized in probability to the likelihood of passing the impact of future generations. He found that there are many differences in the molecular level and evolution happened not because of choice, but because of the random probability of a particular fixed. This is the famous theory of molecular evolution-neutral evolution, the theory put forward from 60 years to 20 years in 1990, the time of intense debate can actually be called a challenge. I went to the United States just in time for the fun of this great debate, I believe that Darwin and Kimura, who can not even believe that sitting in a room to discuss issues, we should sit together scolded frame. Instead, his final Kimura invented a neutral evolutionary theory as a frame of reference to detect the nature of Darwin's natural selection occurs, the two theories become an organic whole.

The second is a female scientist too Tomoko (Tomoko Ohta). She believes that evolution in nature can ultimately be preserved, and not necessarily that of the most able to adapt to the environment (features), bad characters, because of the opportunity, in the natural world is also likely to be fixed. This philosophy tells us one thing: Why did not because of the natural world has become the perfect choice? The young people and students often say: life is perfect, life is wonderful. The argument is problematic. Ota said the negative things in some cases, may also become the end result of evolution. This systematic change of early adaptive evolution of Darwin's picture of the world is given. Of course, she said, and only a small part of the environment or because a number of evolutionary adaptation, but this is not possible to adapt the same to create a perfect life, because it has been created by the environment. Moreover, "perfect" is also a value judgments, rather than a scientific description.另外，自然环境也是不断发生改变的，在某些情况下，环境发生变化，让你的突变刚好适应；但环境和基因组的不断改变，没有可能造成一个最好的生命，这同宗教情怀刚好相反，不完美才是生命的一般特征。

还有人做过一些实验，结果是达尔文不会预料到的，但最后都殊途同归，如今我重新审视过去，就会发现它们互补。从达尔文到木村到太田，让我们对自然界生命演化的理解越来越完全。在这个意义上，他们并没有推倒达尔文。

观众9 ：最后一个问题，有没有可能，演化并不一定是随环境变化发生的，也有可能不知道什么原因，我的基因就变了，以后可能我的后代就变成了新的物种，或者有了新的功能，而跟环境变化没有关系？

龙漫远：刚才我们讲中性演化理论，它是一个随机过程，适用于一个种群。它的下一代的某种特征，由于抽样产生的某种几率是不一样的，在这个意义上，这跟环境没有关系。即便如此，也不能说这是随机产生的。突变产生的过程是有客观依据的，可以通过科学方法去追溯。比如是什么样的突变机制刚好让它产生了一个新的变异。在客观条件下二者存在因果关系，只是我们人在现有的认知范围没有办法去确切地追寻，所以说它是一个随机的过程。

观众10 ：我想提一个科学家一般都不太喜欢的问题，相信达尔文是不是必然等同于无神论？

龙漫远 ：这个问题好，我要从一个故事开始讲。

20年前，我在研究生院快毕业了，要通过博士生资格考试，我拿到考试委员会名单，上面这五位教授将决定我够不够格。我一看大吃一惊：委员会主席是那个大学里最狂热的基督教徒之一！这下我就着急了：我千里迢迢到这里念书，遇到这么一个人，而我下个星期要去证明达尔文演化论的证据，他肯定会把我枪毙掉。我就提前约见他，说：“Jim，you know，next week……” 这家伙何等聪明，他马上就知道我要说什么：“哦，你的意思是说，我信教，所以你讲达尔文的时候我就会把你毙掉？”我说“是”。他拍着我肩膀说：“年轻人，我告诉你，我是有schedule的，从礼拜一到礼拜五，当我走到办公室的时候，我是相信达尔文的；但礼拜六和礼拜天，我信上帝。你答辩那天是礼拜四，你怕什么呢？”

就是这样，他把时间分开了。星期一到星期五讲达尔文，来考我；到了星期六星期天，他到教堂去享受他的精神信仰。这是我第一次遇见这样的事，后来看到这种事越来越多。

今年，在达尔文诞辰200周年的日子，有一张著名的照片。英国的国教（Church of England）有一个教士手拿大束鲜花跪在达尔文的墓前说：“我对不起你。150年前，我们出于无知，也出于狂妄，用狂热的语言诽谤你，批评你。我们现在非常后悔，我们现在相信你的理论是正确的。”

反过来你要问：这是不是说明这些人放弃了宗教信仰呢？ No.十几年前，当时的罗马教皇公开发表评论说：我们现在发现，达尔文当年说的都是对的，但它并不说明我们的宗教信仰就没有意义，因为人类的许多活动还有超越科学之外的意义，所以我们有存在的价值。犹太教的领道公开说：如果有一天，科学证明我们的教义（某一条）是错的，我会毫不犹豫地修改那一条；但我有我的精神信仰。当然，西方国家还有狂热的教徒，他们完全不给科学留下任何余地，这是极端的原教旨主义。美国可能是今天具有宗教信仰最多的人口比例最多的西方国家，25% 的美国人不相信达尔文。这也是Jerry写出这本书的对象之一。

再讲个事情，昨天我开会时碰见一个著名的美国演化科学家。他告诉我，三个月以前，他被梵蒂冈的教皇邀请去参加梵蒂冈举行的纪念达尔文诞生200周年的大会。西方也还有许多人把自己的宗教信仰和理性思维分开。例如，每周去教堂做礼拜的美国人中，有近四分之一相信达尔文的演化论。 2005年，美国发生了一场最大的争端。宾夕法尼亚一个县教育局的几个人提出来，应该在中学教科学的课上教神创论，要把圣经上的描述放到课堂上。这件事发生以后，十几个学生的家长马上把教育局告上了法庭，说他们违背了美国宪法修正案的第一条，即美国是个政教分离的国家，任何宗教不得同政治混为一谈。因为学校属于政府，所以这是违背美国宪法的。官司一打，全美大哗，大家都在关注这件事，要看谁是谁非。我自己的关于基因起源的研究也在里面扮演了重要角色，我发表的科学文章在第一天就被作为原告方的学生家长引用，在法庭上告诉所有人，基因起源都是自然的过程，不是上帝创造的。后来被告方调查我的个人档案，检查我的可信度，最后同意我的研究工作是可信的。我惊讶的是，官司打了三个月以后，法官判决县教育局违宪，这个案子以这些极端宗教信仰者的失败而告终。这本书的第一页就讲这个案件。有趣的是，法官本人并不是一个无神论者，但他做出了理性的判决。

所以说，中世纪那样科学与宗教的极端对立的关系，在今天已经有改变。

叶盛 ：我想补充一点，在书最后我写的译后记中提到了我经历的一个例子。我住在纽约，房东就是一名资深牧师，曾经是一名神学教授，已经退休了，80多岁，但周围的教堂经常会请他去做布道。一开始我不想让他知道我翻译这本书的事情，因为怕起争执，我也不愿意去跟他争论这些问题。但是后来还是被他无意中发现了。有次他问我：“书译完了吗？”我说译完了。他很高兴地说：“太好了，演化论是上帝送给我们的礼物。”他本人是完全不反对这个的。

我想说的是，宗教信仰还有很大的成分是一种精神上的寄托，一种行为上的规范，这些东西与上帝无关。第二，作为科学工作者，很严格地讲，演化论只是否定了上帝创造了所有生物这一点，并没有否定上帝的其他方面。所以不能说有了演化论就把上帝、信仰完全打倒了。

龙漫远 ：我在芝加哥大学工作期间，还发现一个有趣的事情。芝加哥大学在我们生态与演化科学领域是全美排名第一的，我刚加入芝大时的生态与演化系的系主任，，我曾经以为是和我一样的无神论者。有一次，我有机会跟我们社区的人坐同一班车去机场，这些人问我干吗的，我说我是哪个学校教授，他说：“哦，你们的系主任是我们教会最好的布道者。” 我当时很吃惊：这是全世界最好的演化生物学系的系主任！所以这些事情不断告诉我们，要用多元的方式来看待这个世界，以往那种对科学和宗教的非此即彼水火不容的看法，太简单，也太堂吉诃德，不是今天这个世界的真实状况。对这个世界的理解，同样需要智慧和理性。

主持人 ：我也想多嘴一句。我知道有些人怀疑达尔文是因为这会让自己遭遇信仰危机，会让自己的人生变得没有意义。但是书里有句话说得特别好，叶盛译得也很精彩：“演化只是告诉我们自己来自哪里，而非去向何方。”

观众11 ：我问一个同性恋的问题：它是有生物学基础、完全由基因决定的呢，还是社会环境、文化的诱导？

龙漫远 ：这刚好是我实验室的一个研究领域。我在美国国家科学院院报上发表过文章，我们把果蝇的基因进行了改造，发现改造之后雄性果蝇就不再对雌性果蝇感“性”趣了，而是对雄性果蝇感性趣。吓我一跳：怎么可以这个样子？可是就是这个样子。我不是说所有同性恋现象都受基因控制，我是说有好多同性恋现象是有遗传基础的。当然我搞的是果蝇，不是人；但是我知道发生在果蝇身上的机制没有理由不会在人身上发生。当时文章发表以后，我的同事还担心原教旨主义者会对我不利，劝我一定不要写这个和人有关系。

这里可以再讲一个我知道的和人有关的资料。波士顿大学有两位教授，在90年代初曾经汇集了120对同卵双生子的资料，其中有一些同性恋者。他们想知道一个有意思的问题：如果双胞胎之一是同性恋的话，另一个是不是有比较高的机会也是同性恋呢？如果是，那唯一的解释就是他们的遗传背景是相似的。调查结果是，对于男性同卵双生子，如果一个是同性恋，另一个是同性恋的几率将达到50%以上。他们又去找了一些异卵双生子来研究，发现如果有一个是同性恋的话，第二个是同性恋的几率达到20%以上。最后他们又研究了一些收养的孩子，发现这个比例降低到了11%，刚好是美国社会声称调查到的同性恋的平均数。所以他们总结：随着遗传相似度的增高，同性恋的比例也增高，所以这跟遗传是相关的。而女性同性恋者的比例大约低出5个百分点。

但是人类的现象不能像果蝇那样通过遗传操作，确凿地来讲这个东西是由基因控制的。人们可以争辩说：你这个实验里的同卵双生子都是生长在同一个家庭的，受家庭环境的影响，不见得是遗传上有差异，这样就产生了很多争议。后来美国NIH有一个人，叫Dean Hamer，90年代初发表了一篇文章，声称他把同性恋基因定位到了x染色体上，这引起全美大哗。后来人们发现他本人是个同性恋者，觉得他的工作是有偏见的。但是前面双生子的资料大家是相信的。

再回到问问题的技巧，说这个现象是不是遗传控制，这是一个比较粗放的问题；更重要的是它在多大程度上受遗传控制。所以当我们说它“受基因控制”时，并没有告诉你两者之间的数量关系，只是说最低限度上可能有遗传原因。问问题的时候要问清楚。

观众12 ：我想问克隆技术的出现对演化研究的影响。

龙漫远 ：这个我真不知道。有可能有影响，但只有等到他大规模出现以后才能判断。

陈振夏 ：克隆是一种无性生殖技术，而我们现在之所以有这么丰富多彩的生物世界，很大一个原因是因为有性生殖的存在。如果克隆技术蔓延，大家都采用那样一种生活方式，就会影响到人基因库的多样性，有可能造成演化速率的降低。事实上现在有很多技术，包括医疗技术，使演化的速率正在慢慢降低，自然选择作用的力度也在降低。所以从某个角度来讲，现在人类演化的速度是在不断变慢的。

观众13 ：刚说人的演化速率在变慢，我在想，人跟病菌的斗争会导致什么结果？因为感觉上病菌不断在出变种，变得越来越厉害。

陈振夏 ：从抗药性来说，演化涉及两个方面，一方面病菌在演化，另一方面宿主也在演化。虽然由于医学进步，人对病菌的抵抗力有所降低，但人会制造许多药物来增强自己对抗病毒的能力。虽然自然选择对人类的作用在变弱，但是从另一个角度来讲，人会用更先进的方式来对抗自然的压力。

叶盛 ：病菌的演化和人的演化的确是一场斗争，我想说一个有的人可能不喜欢听的观点，我觉得还是有必要花更多的科研力量去好好研究中医。中医中药现在可能有一些误区，但是中医理论最基本的东西是去激发人体自身的潜能，让你自身的免疫力去对抗病菌病毒，而用药物去压制只能加大它们的演化压力，只能逼迫它们向抗药的方向演化。这是我一个比较个人的观点。

龙漫远 ：像陈振夏刚才说的，为什么两性生殖有好处呢，因为它能产生更大的变异；变异变大了以后，自然选择选择的幅度会增加。我们现在还没有完全理解的是，无性生殖的生物在自然界中也改变，也演化，而且速度并不慢。所以我觉得这个东西还没有最后定论，只是提供了一个可能性，还需要更多研究才能成为一般结论。叶盛刚才谈到中医的事情，假定中医能够帮助人类对抗病毒，其实也是环境对病毒施加的压力，我们还是不知道两种方法哪种更好。我觉得，中医经过几千年，毕竟是经验的产物，它是应该用现代科学的方法来考察的。

观众14 ：现在的演化论更多的是研究生命为什么存在，它能否告诉我们人类接下来会演化成什么样子？一个趋势也可以。如果不能，那么研究演化论对未来的指导意义在哪儿？

龙漫远 ：用Jerry的话讲，演化论只能告诉我们从何而来，而不能告诉我们到哪儿去。因为不同的物种有着高度不同的命运，我们唯一知道的是地球上99%的生命都已经灭绝了。我有一个同事系统研究了化石，发现所有的物种灭绝的概率都是一样的，不因为一个物种很成功它就不灭绝。在这个意义上，没有物种可以确切地预知其未来。但我觉得理解本身就是意义。

叶盛 ：虽然存在其他方式，但环境压力下的演化依然是主要的演化方式。我们有一套成熟的演化论理论之后，无法预期的是今后会有什么样的环境变化。如果能给出具体的环境变化，还是能够大概知道物种演化的方向。问题在于我们无从知道明天的环境是什么样的。

另外，既然这个理论可能不能预测人类的演化方向，那它还有什么用呢？实际上这只是它在哲学上无法回答我们将向何处去的问题，但它还有很多有现实意义的应用。比如我们和病毒的斗争。青霉素最早出现的时候是可以随便用的，但现在抗生素都是处方药，只有医生觉得你需要才可以买。这实际上是演化论的一个应用。再比如我们人类吃的很多植物和动物都是人类育种的结果，这也是演化论的一种应用。

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